Comments on: The Semantic Lunch http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/ web 2.0, blogs and social media Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:19:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Threepointouch at twopointouch: web 2.0, blogs and social media http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-2225 Threepointouch at twopointouch: web 2.0, blogs and social media Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:32:21 +0000 http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-2225 [...] Techmeme is full to bursting with posts announcing/decrying the announcement of something called Web 3.0. The kerfuffle follows an article in the New York Times yesterday, which is actually about semantic technologies - I gave a little overview in August and there’s more here. The ideas have been around since at least 1999, and are part of Berners-Lee’s vision for Web 1.0. My friend Marc Fawzi gave a good introduction to the idea in June: [...] [...] Techmeme is full to bursting with posts announcing/decrying the announcement of something called Web 3.0. The kerfuffle follows an article in the New York Times yesterday, which is actually about semantic technologies - I gave a little overview in August and there’s more here. The ideas have been around since at least 1999, and are part of Berners-Lee’s vision for Web 1.0. My friend Marc Fawzi gave a good introduction to the idea in June: [...]

]]> By: AI3 - Adaptive Information::: http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-343 AI3 - Adaptive Information::: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 14:20:14 +0000 http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-343 <strong>‘Semantic Technologies’ in the Enterprise...</strong> Ian Delaney, a journalist based in London, reports on an interview he had with John Davies of BT (the former British Telecom) during a The Semantic Lunch. I have previously written about Davies’ BT colleague Paul Warren and his call for the ... ‘Semantic Technologies’ in the Enterprise…

Ian Delaney, a journalist based in London, reports on an interview he had with John Davies of BT (the former British Telecom) during a The Semantic Lunch. I have previously written about Davies’ BT colleague Paul Warren and his call for the …

]]> By: Paul Elosegui http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-342 Paul Elosegui Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:15:47 +0000 http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-342 Interesting is Google's problem with the semantic web. A web site should have a machine readable and understandable version of its content - whose current form is a microformat. But given the abuse of existing web page descriptives by Spammers, like the metanames abuse, Google is not too impressed. I think it is a minor issue and, as you say, annotating the current web should be separate from the overall semantic web project. Yet it sadly intrudes into the debate as in Berners-Lee's recent <a href="http://blog.eucap.com/data_feed_standards_fight_looming_betwee.html" rel="nofollow">Berners-Lee's recent Question & Answer session with Google's Norvig</a> Interesting is Google’s problem with the semantic web. A web site should have a machine readable and understandable version of its content - whose current form is a microformat. But given the abuse of existing web page descriptives by Spammers, like the metanames abuse, Google is not too impressed.

I think it is a minor issue and, as you say, annotating the current web should be separate from the overall semantic web project. Yet it sadly intrudes into the debate as in Berners-Lee’s recent Berners-Lee’s recent Question & Answer session with Google’s Norvig

]]> By: Ian Delaney http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-323 Ian Delaney Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:09:17 +0000 http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-323 Like you, I blog for lots of reasons: personal pleasure, because it helps me work things out, to have a bit of dialogue about those things, to perhaps increase the audience for the eventual book, to maybe get some other work, to attract sponsorship. Google doesn't really factor into *any* of that. Sod 'em. Like you, I blog for lots of reasons: personal pleasure, because it helps me work things out, to have a bit of dialogue about those things, to perhaps increase the audience for the eventual book, to maybe get some other work, to attract sponsorship.

Google doesn’t really factor into *any* of that. Sod ‘em.

]]> By: Marc - Stuck @ the Marriott http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-321 Marc - Stuck @ the Marriott Sat, 26 Aug 2006 15:44:17 +0000 http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-321 We're bloggers, we need no stinking pretexts! BTW, I used to think it's 98 all over again with Web 2.0 and all the hype. Now I think it's 95 all over again. Well, at least in the area I'm in, which is experiencing the same growth the Web was experiencing in 95. Your blog's template/html has been evolving faster than any blog out there and somehow it has gone from good to better through all those changes. Thumbs up for getting rid of the Google NonSense ads. :) Marc We’re bloggers, we need no stinking pretexts!

BTW, I used to think it’s 98 all over again with Web 2.0 and all the hype. Now I think it’s 95 all over again. Well, at least in the area I’m in, which is experiencing the same growth the Web was experiencing in 95.

Your blog’s template/html has been evolving faster than any blog out there and somehow it has gone from good to better through all those changes. Thumbs up for getting rid of the Google NonSense ads.

:)

Marc

]]> By: Ian Delaney http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-319 Ian Delaney Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:35:03 +0000 http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-319 Marc - I'll find some pretext for writing about it soon. ;) Marc - I’ll find some pretext for writing about it soon. ;)

]]> By: Ian Delaney http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-318 Ian Delaney Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:30:02 +0000 http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-318 My guy was quite keen to separate the idea of annotating individual web pages through xml from the idea of semantic web services. In fact, he was quite disparaging about Microformats because they are prescriptive of the content they are used to represent. Semantic web services are designed to be descriptive, and thus inherently more flexible. While the ontologies are formal frameworks, the documents they describe can be anything. Hang on, my headache's coming back. My guy was quite keen to separate the idea of annotating individual web pages through xml from the idea of semantic web services.
In fact, he was quite disparaging about Microformats because they are prescriptive of the content they are used to represent. Semantic web services are designed to be descriptive, and thus inherently more flexible. While the ontologies are formal frameworks, the documents they describe can be anything.
Hang on, my headache’s coming back.

]]> By: Marc - Stuck @ the Marriott http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-317 Marc - Stuck @ the Marriott Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:56:40 +0000 http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-317 Hey... how come you have no link to the set of articles (or at least the original article) I had published that seeded your interest in the semantic Web? ;-) Marc Hey… how come you have no link to the set of articles (or at least the original article) I had published that seeded your interest in the semantic Web?

;-)

Marc

]]> By: Deirdre Molloy http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-314 Deirdre Molloy Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:15:25 +0000 http://twopointouch.com/2006/08/25/the-semantic-lunch/#comment-314 Ian, I share your pain, it's the semantic migrane ;-) But I really <a href="http://innovationeye.wordpress.com/2006/04/08/bootstrapping-the-semantic-web/" rel="nofollow">want to understand</a>! So, with that in mind I went to a lecture on 'Ontologies & The Semantic Web' given by Professor Ian Horrocks at the Royal Society in December last year. It was a great talk and it actually helped me over the basic hurdles. However, some of the details were too much (read my <a href="http://www.nmk.co.uk/article/2006/04/08/ontologies-semantic-web" rel="nofollow">report on the talk</a> and you'll see exactly where my brain melted). At a recent Beers & Innovation event (which I organise) on Web Services & Mash Ups, <a href="http://simon.incutio.com/" rel="nofollow">Simon Willison</a> who's Technology Dev in Yahoo! said that the development of web data has come in three broad stages: unstructured, structured and standardised. We're still struggling to get data structured at the minute. Tom Loosemore, Project Director for BBC 2.0, said at the same event that standards cannot be fixed when the environment is not mature. Tim Berners-Lee would now find it hard to argue that the web has not grown as a mess, Tom said and he stressed that standards emerge and imposing them stifles innovation. Interesting point. And of course I don't dream that he is saying they emerge unconciously, but from collaboration and testing I suppose.... Anyways, that's my less than 2 cents. Horrock's talk was good and I didn't see any other write ups of it, but then most of the other people there weren't random non-sciencey types like me ;-) Ian, I share your pain, it’s the semantic migrane ;-)

But I really want to understand! So, with that in mind I went to a lecture on ‘Ontologies & The Semantic Web’ given by Professor Ian Horrocks at the Royal Society in December last year. It was a great talk and it actually helped me over the basic hurdles. However, some of the details were too much (read my report on the talk and you’ll see exactly where my brain melted).

At a recent Beers & Innovation event (which I organise) on Web Services & Mash Ups, Simon Willison who’s Technology Dev in Yahoo! said that the development of web data has come in three broad stages: unstructured, structured and standardised. We’re still struggling to get data structured at the minute.

Tom Loosemore, Project Director for BBC 2.0, said at the same event that standards cannot be fixed when the environment is not mature. Tim Berners-Lee would now find it hard to argue that the web has not grown as a mess, Tom said and he stressed that standards emerge and imposing them stifles innovation. Interesting point. And of course I don’t dream that he is saying they emerge unconciously, but from collaboration and testing I suppose….

Anyways, that’s my less than 2 cents. Horrock’s talk was good and I didn’t see any other write ups of it, but then most of the other people there weren’t random non-sciencey types like me ;-)

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